hello everybody just some information we have a very interesting webinar with great speakers looking ahead please if you have some questions for the speakers answer ask them in the q a session and i'm pretty sure we will try to answer to them and you can introduce yourself from where you are coming and who you are and what you are doing in the chat but please select panelists and attendees in the chat in zoom so everybody can see from where you are coming and who you are for those who are following us on youtube please put your questions your information for where you are coming your hellos in the comment room and our people our colleagues from eden will transfer all this information to us in the zoo so i'm diana andone i'm the director of the e-learning center in the polytechnica university of kimshara romania but more importantly i am the eden vice president into in charge with communication and communities and i'm very happy to be doing this in a very important year for eden the 30 years of existence of eden this is the four series of the webinars which edom has started more than a year ago in the idea of supporting the educators around the world on how to provide quality into education and how to improve their educational skills and digital competencies this webinar and i will start now the presentation so you will be able to see all what what i'm speaking about just briefly okay so um this webinar as i said is going to be uh in this last series which is called time for action in shaping higher education four zero and we are looking very much forward to discuss about the future of education and what will be in in stock for us starting with next year and also what we can do to finalize a good condition this academic year of this school year and is as i already mentioned is part of the celebratory events uh dedicated to eden 30's anniversary and please go online on the30.edemonline.org where you can share your stories and your memories and everything what eden has done for you for your community in the last 40 years it's still time to submit your papers and to register to attend our great conference on june in madrid virtually unfortunately still but we have great speakers and great papers already um in the schedule and please join us and we promise it's going to be a very interesting event in uh in the middle of june 21st 24th of june 2021 the edens virtual annual conference as i already mentioned this webinar is part of the series of the webinars which we don't started one year and a half ago and this team for today is sharing and collaborating our way out of the storm and we are looking mainly on how to be will be able to share and collaborate what open education has been able to do for to support educators around the world have they been using open educational resources tools and practices or not and what the future will host for us we are trying to do a very pre-finalized of what happened in the last years especially in terms of open education but we are definitely trying to see what the future will hold how we are going to improve our education system is open education part of the improvement or not and for this we have some amazing speakers and i thank them very much for taking the time and the dedication to support the eden webinars and our community so first is melissa hayton coming from university of edinburgh uk and she is the in charge with online learning everybody knows her quite well because she was very much involved in the open educational resources conferences and in support of open education and university of edinburgh is one of the universities who is very much advanced in the implementation of open education in everyday educational practice and then we have stephen downs who is coming from canada he's very famous mainly for initiating the open online courses the moocs the famous books and for inspiring all of us on how to do open education in the last years he's the digital technologies uh um researcher at the research center at the national research center of canada and then we have a very good friend a very good collaborator of eden for many many years alistair prielman who is specialist in learning and is coming from leaners university of sweden and who i consider a person who inspires and give us food for thought and it's always trying to put perspectives imbalance for everybody so first i will uh i would like like to um to let let me just stop this i will not like to present for steven downs if it's possible um as he will be our first speaker today stephen dawes as i said works with digital technologies for many years he inspired all of us about open education he is one of the originators of the massive open online courses and he published very frequently in the blog which is dear to all of us all daily and also a newsletter which comes for in every month and sometimes even twice per month in everybody's inbox uh stephen uh i don't think uh something more is needed to be said about you and i'm pretty sure you will be uh inspiring all of us stephen please hi everyone uh thank you for having me here and here are my wonderful slides for today uh but just stolen the name of the webinar for the title of my presentation because i like to do that and if you're wondering those railway tracks and those clouds are what it looked like on saturday just outside the small town in canada where i'm giving this talk um so i want i want to begin by observing that any change is going to be hard at first and i think that's something that we really learned this year during the pandemic a lot of people tried to jump right into online learning or as they called it remote learning and as we all know i think it takes time to get comfortable with new technology and new ways of doing things and this is what we're going to find in the future as we return to the classroom it's not going to be the same and it will be hard to jump into the new classroom environment we'll try to get everything back to normal but it won't be back to normal it'll be different because of the experiences we've had but the main thing we want to keep in mind here is we can't directly compare the new thing to the old thing we can't directly compare our experience of remote learning and online learning to what we were doing in the classroom we've been doing classrooms for years but we've only been doing many of us online learning just for well in the case of people who just started just for the last 12 14 months wait until you're really comfortable with it before you make the comparison now i want to talk about sharing first which is one of the two major themes of our uh webinar today and of course we know that open media plays a key role and yes it's important to save money and increase access to learning and that's a key motivation for open media but it's not simply about changing money or sorry it's not simply about saving money we need a way to talk to each other and this is what we learned during the pandemic we can't just talk to each other in words we need media we need an alphabet of images of resources we need sentences we create out of tick-tock videos and facebook posts we need data to share with each other and we need these to be available like in any language without worrying about who owns it and how much it costs that's why we needed zoom so we could share freely and that's why open textbooks became so essential during the pandemic we also learned that learning is social and we knew that already right you know everybody says you know we we need to be in classrooms and whatever but i think what's really different that we learned during the pandemic is that some of the important outcomes of learning are social outcomes like all of us remembering to wear masks all of us practicing social distancing all of us together beating the pandemic we can't learn to do that just as individuals we learn as a community and it isn't just about remembering stuff it's about how we exchange these ideas how we conduct trade which really changed during the pandemic we had to relearn that and how we develop community networks with each other now collaboration which is the other side of the webinar well one thing we learned and we're experiencing right now we really like live events now not everything needs to be live we can have videos simulations other content but live events are what draw us in live events are what challenge us when we don't know what's going to happen as during a live event we're engaged our minds are engaged in planning and anticipation will he follow the text on the screen or will he add live we don't know if it's live and live events have us interacting even if indirectly to the other people on the screen and it creates uh what we call presence that knowledge that there's a person at the other end of the line and with respect to collaboration we're learning that it takes a community it takes a community to learn it takes a community to teach we've already known that teachers need building and facilities and support staffs and all of that but when they're working with advanced technology like we're using right now it's going to take an entire team it takes someone to set up the webinar take someone to manage the the video displays and the slides you can do it online but as soon as you know you can do it online all by yourself but as soon as you get a little bit complicated and start working with multimedia while you're giving a talk it gets more difficult even doing this with you know advancing the slides and talking to you i'm trying to keep track of two things in my head it gets harder and a community a team makes it easier so how do these come together well sharing plus collaboration equal open community and there are some important lessons we learned during the pandemic about that first of all people have diverse needs way more diverse than we thought they come from different cultures different languages and have different abilities and that's not just true in europe that's true here in north america that's true everywhere before the pandemic in traditional school we designed for the mainstream and hoped everybody else could adapt but you know when we switched to go online a lot of difficult issues surfaced and we had to address especially in north america but i think around the world built-in or systemic discrimination we had to get past the idea that only some people are special needs and adopt the attitude that everyone has special needs and finally we learned that inequities harm learning you know uh coming together to learn at school the physical school the physical building mitigated in the past many of the worst impacts of poverty and disability because at a school we could all access books we could all access teachers and we could all find time to study away from the distractions of a home a lot of people especially in north america but again around the world depend on school for internet access and for a good meal and a lot of this support disappeared when we went online people in need just vanished so we've learned that we need to solve this problem of inequity and keep solving it even after the pandemic that's my brief presentation that's my cat emma and i'm stephen dennis thank you very much stephen that was very how to say very powerful and i think it really showed how important the the differences are and how important it is to take into consideration these differences so my question for you will be do you think that the use of open educational resources are how to say leaning the path making um seamlessly unaware that you have differences when you deliver open education or do you see the personalized learning really the solution for addressing these challenges which you just described one of the things we discovered when we offered moocs is that when we allowed people to choose their own learning resources people didn't all make the same choice people chose a wide range of different learning resources in different languages in different modalities some chose to learn from text content some chose to learn from videos some chose to learn in communities which they sometimes even created themselves and so i think that the real lessons we learn from open educational resources are not the lessons we learn when we try to use them and adapt them in our teaching but when they are used and adapted and shared directly by students and when when when they do that we see the the incredible diversity of needs and interests but also too and this was uh to my mind a key discovery during the time of the moocs is we've discovered that the richness of the conversation increases because people coming from different perspectives reading different materials have different things to say to each other rather than if everybody's coming from the same point of view and everybody's using the same resource so that's the role i see open educational resources playing increasing the diversity and the richness and the fluidity of the conversation yes indeed and i quite like your idea of adapting so i think that's a key word which will all uh need to take into consideration of at least in the near future if we haven't done it yet how we can really make that adaptation and adapt to different different styles of not necessarily learning but different styles of which comes not necessarily from different backgrounds or the digital divide and so on but we just want to be able to learn a bit differently each to each other and that's probably one of the key things for something as we already discussed each of the presenters are going to share something about their ideas about the topic of how to share and reuse for the future of education and then we will have discussions and we also have a small poll for everyone and it's with my great pleasure thank you very much stephen uh to invite now the next speaker who is uh professor melissa heighton who is a very close friend also of eden all of them are been involved with eden for many many years she's coming from university of edinburgh united kingdom she's in charge with the teaching learning uh global platforms at virtual environments technology enhanced learning and digital student experiences in the university of edinburgh she advised and speak and builds up the strategy of this university she was also is very much involved in the movement to online and to open online courses in coursera edict's future learn and obviously in wikimedia i quite like and admire the wikimedia residents it always comes up with something quite interesting and with loads of experiences and information and as i already mentioned university of edinburgh is very well advanced in the improvement and the involvement of open education so melissa please thank you i'm going to take a slightly different um angle on open educational resources than than what stephen did um yeah it's a next slide thank you um because i'm going to again i've used the same title um but really thinking about the questions how can we harness oers what problems can oer help us resolve and how does it support our core business and what i'm going to talk about is just some snapshots of case studies of things that we've done at edinburgh this year that we've only been able to do because we have invested in oer as a big part of our business so if you're on to the next slide thank you so this is this is a mooc but um this was a mooc about covert that we launched during the pandemic quite early on um so it's a free online short course etc but the and it got 50 000 learners from 200 countries uh very quickly because it was about how to work in critical care um so it was actually aimed at medics so this was not i mean this was the public but it was the public who work as as medics and nurses and frontline healthcare people but the reason i mention it is because we made this mooc out of materials that we already had as part of part of an online master's course in critical care and because those because of the work we had done on those materials originally making sure that all parts of those were open licensed so there was no third party copyright in those materials so previously we had used them for a closed course within just the university of edinburgh a master's course the msc in critical care but because of the work we had done to make sure that all of it could be open licensed and could be shared it meant that we were able to put this mooc up onto future learn without having to revisit any of the copyright that was in the materials and to me that's what open educational resources is about that's where you get your return on investment because the time you've spent when you when you birth the materials when they're born digital if you spend the time on the licensing then it means that the institution can use and reuse in lots of different ways that's where i see the return on investment so this slide um explains that obviously we put it on futurelearn which is the uk um mooc platform we got 50 000 learners um and of course the thing is we now have the names of all of those learners and so more recently we've been able to contact them and ask them whether they would like to take the online master's course in critical care so we can use it as a as a feeder and and hopefully get some of those people and the geographic reach of that course was considerable so we've actually managed to attract to our university some people who would not necessarily have found us before and the the video that is linked from the slides um which yes you don't want to watch right now but you can watch because i'll share the slides is a video about the mooc but the video is made by mcgraw-hill who are a big publishing company and one of the reasons well so they made this nice video about our mooc because they wanted to be associated with us on the fact that this had been such a great open educational resource and in fact they um gave open access to some of the readings that we needed from them so did elsevier but mcgraw-hill really saw that as an advantage to them to be aligned with our open educational resources mooc which is not something that publishers always do okay next slide thank you okay so this is another um part of how we use oer so we produce a lot of moocs at university of edinburgh and particularly at the moment we are producing moocs that align with the un sustainability sustainable development goals and this is part of the institution's commitment to helping scotland and more widely meet those goals and all of these moocs are made as open educational resources so all of the videos that are included in the moocs all of the materials in the moocs obviously on the platforms they're available open to large groups of people but the materials in the courses are licensed as oer and so they're available to share and adapt so if anybody would like to take any of the materials from any of these courses and use them more locally and make changes to them or use teachers want to use them that's absolutely fine with us so and of course one of the sustainable development goals is around open education so these are open education resources so that's sustainable development goal four but delivering so many of the other sustainable development goals and that's another way in which open educational resources um bring benefit to the institution and the next slide yeah so to say just to say that this um this is partly about where we make the materials available so the sustainable global food systems for instance all of the materials we make our moocs available in at least two places so one on the major platform and we work with future learn coursera and edx but we always make sure that we also make the materials available on our own uh media hopper platform so that people don't have to go to the mooc platforms because those mic platforms have got different rules and sometimes they have different models where you need to actually subscribe or pay actually now to get on to the mooc platforms but we make sure that we keep a copy we also um put all our stuff onto our own platform and we use calcula um for our mediahopper platform calculator is open source and that's also an open educational resource and we also write about what we're doing on our blogs which are on wordpress which of course is open source and is also an open educational resource and the blog post that i've highlighted here in case anybody wants to go and read it is about this is a blog post by the mooc production teams reflecting on how they approached the task of making open educational resources to support the un sustainable development goals particularly the sustainable global food systems mooc because this is one of the ones that they made during lockdown and their production um so the business these this team is in is a media production team and they would usually have done most they're you know they're they are videographers they're film they're filmers they would usually have gone out and about and got lots of footage and done lots of trips and gone to places and filmed things but because they were locked down they weren't able to do that um but so they had to change their practice so that the um promotional materials particularly the the trailers for all of these moocs were made reusing other people's materials and this is what's important to the university of edinburgh is that we don't just publish our own materials out as open educational resources but we consume where other people have made their materials available and so we we take as well as give and the very generous gifts that people make when they license their materials openly and they may not know how it's going to be used but we are a consumer of that and um what it says in this particular blog post is a reflection from one of my learning designers that he was saying that our use of community-sourced stock footage and he means open educational resources has increased from about 20 to as high as 90 percent so basically that meant it was possible for those people to continue to work and complete the tasks that they needed to do during lockdown because of the wider community of open educational resources that we were able to draw upon so thank you to anybody who licenses their materials as open because we're able to to use them as well as licensing our own as open so that was kind of my headline which was that we really harness the value of open educational resources when we embed it as part of our business and make sure that all of our materials are licensed as open educational resources so that we can consume our own consume other peoples and share our own thank you thank you very much melissa very insightful and i quite like this idea that what you shared with us is that um the the return of investment because i'm somehow in the same position in my university and also here in romania i'm trying to advocate as much as possible open education and one of the first questions and the first issues which i faced is that what what are why i put so much money so much resources so many staff hours and and so much equipment in producing this and then to give it for free for everybody and i say yes that's the point because your return on investment comes later if you make it right you can reuse it in different format in different modes to different courses and other colleagues will be able to use it and i keep saying if a community can do it then we can do it so how you managed to convince the university of edinburgh about this and how you plan the strategy for doing this because i know it's not easy i suppose i have always been very clear that it is just part of the infrastructure for us um i insist that our materials is like are licensed openly i think we know that this is not um this is not a large enough part of our content for it to be giving away the crown jewels it's a very important part of our content that allows us to use and reuse i mean this is the thing if we have to move our materials from platform to platform which we do do quite a lot as new platforms come or um you know if we want to update materials and add them to other courses it really the time that you would spend having to go back and figure out where all of the third party stuff came from the first time that's more work so if you just design from the start design for open which i think somebody yes varina has said designing intentionally designing for open if you start with that position then the materials are just much higher value and yet you give them away for free but they're because you can reuse them and we get all kinds of value from them in the institution yes indeed uh thank you very much i see a lot of questions in the chat you can also ask questions in the q and a session we will take them and we'll try to answer to them uh later on after also alastair will do his presentation so thank you melissa for this and it's my turn to present our alistar crewman who is a very close friend of eden he was also in charge with either nap in the past and he's coming from lino's university sweden where he's working as a specialist and in e-learning and he's a leader on open course for university teachers and works quite a lot on building and inspiring people how to use open educational resources and he is a committee member also of the swedish network variety in higher education and has a very good blog which i'm pretty sure everybody reads and accesses corridor of certainty and he's very active also on twitter as well as melissa and stephen i need to say this is a highly active twitter twitter group which we have around here so alistair please okay thanks diane uh yes it's uh a quick sweep here and uh i wish i could have seen the melissa's and stevens before i might have changed the way i approach this but uh i'm gonna be you could say i'm a little bit negative here but i'm sort of trying to show that we need we still have a long way to go before the open education will save the world uh uh yeah hi melissa from an old graduate of edinburgh university back in the ice age when dinosaurs were on the earth it was 1980 um so i i remember it well anyway there we are joining the dots why do i say that well um i could just get the slide to move forward which there it goes yeah i think oer has got a lot of dots at the moment but we're not so good at joining them together there's a lot of initiatives going on there's a lot of good work going on but it's not being harvested it's not being sort of we're not joining so that's one thing i'm talking about yes we have enormous potential for access inclusion flexibility what uh i think melissa was was showing there there's enormous potential in this and it's being used i'm very impressed of the howenberg university and very envious about how they're working there uh it's part of the system it's wonderful we're a long way from that in sweden i would say uh we have a global community we have all of you are part of that you're all enthusiasts and interested in open education and various forms of that we've got licenses we've got repositories practice policies research we've got a lot of it all the dots are there we've got blessings from above there are more dots i mean there's big organizations where that we're getting pressure coming from the likes of unesco european commission and so on so what's the problem um during the pandemic we have had uh an explosion an avalanche whatever word you want to use that sounds impressive resources all over the place in a way we've almost drowned in them i've almost been scared to look each day because someone else has produced an enormous resource guide to teaching online or learning online with guides and videos you name it and you felt sort of oh my goodness i better do something myself we've been sharing via social networks fantastically creative facebook groups amongst others in sweden where we've had teachers from different institutions sharing sharing their work sharing ideas discussing with each other in an open climate that was just not there before that has happened during the pandemic it's been a catalyst to a more sharing community at least here um however it's been very spontaneous very uncoordinated again the jo the dots are not being connected how do we move up a level with all this things to be resolved we're an awful long way from mainstream but maybe we don't want to be who knows uh do we really want to save the world with oer and open oep and so on or should we focus on those who already know it use it and want to develop it's still very hard to find relevant resources i mean lots of teachers who say that sounds great whether we are but i can't find anything and what i do find is irrelevant or i can't use it uh it would take so much work to redesign it that i can take something off the shelf commercially you know the commercial resources are convenient uh so that's what we use and we're used to using them they're always there we've got licenses to use them it's just too much hard work with oer you can object to that but i think a lot of people they say that's that's a problem for them there's also uneven linguistic coverage there is a massive shortage of uh oers in swedish because we have the the circle hasn't really started tons in english but many languages uh don't have very much oers even if you wanted them and nobody's starting because nobody does it and because you know it's a circle there so i think you might recognize that we also have the problem that uh most people who really need open education don't know it exists and can't access it uh we have enormous amount of the population of the world who have no internet access they have no electricity they don't have running water uh you know there are enormous uh there's enormous potential here but they don't know it exists and they are unable to get at it and that are we creating resources for those who already are privileged anyway how far is this uh you know dropping down you know going down into helping real social inequalities it is in many cases but i think we've still got a long way to go and there are two sides of open nowadays before i get into the darker stuff two sides of open you have an open space a park on a bright sunny day you can have a barbecue you can play ball you can run around you can play with your children but would you do that when it gets dark the bright the wide open space has a a darker side where it's threatening it's not a place you want to be at night you don't know who's in the shadows you don't know what's going on uh and so in a way a lot of people see openness as a little bit like that it can be very positive but it can also be very dangerous and that's why we need to look at layers of openness we need to sort of find the level of openness you want to work on in this particular environment in some courses you cannot be open uh it's just not possible it is very dangerous to be open in fact and to go public i'll take up that in a second uh other times you can be completely public and completely open but we have to be able to negotiate for each situation which level of openness we want to adopt and which is appropriate with the students and the subject where we're working with and then of course uh this is from audrey waters um maybe the questions are unending what on earth do we mean by open um it is a very it's a dangerous word uh we talk about open washing as we do with green washing um there's a lot of things that seem open but aren't open how open are moocs nowadays you know that one but i mean a lot of these questions are coming from teachers and what do we mean really and there are many many interpretations there's no time to go in for all that the barriers are numerous and uh at the risk of kicking in open doors um yeah there's a fear and safety uh aspect and that is uh that's that's more true nowadays than ever before uh there are many teachers who work with subjects that uh they cannot afford to be open because if you're open the trolls come in and there are teachers working in fields where there are death threats you know there are there is net hate and being open opens you up to attack uh there is fear of plagiarism there is fear of being misrepresented of being re-edited and then presented saying something you never really meant um many see a loss of prestige and that it's uh that by giving things away they will lose somehow their status as teachers i'm not sure about that but it's a fear that i meet quite often the perceptions of quality is another matter that uh you know is this good quality can we can we trust this resource of course there are good arguments about against that and saying how how it does it actually enhances quality but many teachers are worried and learners are worried that something i've found that's open can i trust it how can how do i know it's good it's very time consuming to work with open resources it's uh confusing to understand the licensing and what the ins and outs of creative commons licenses of creating metadata and so on and that means there's technical technological expertise you need somebody to help you if you're going to create a repository or put it into the repository correctly and the new phenomenon that's not from this uh source that i cite at the bottom political pressure many countries in the world are reverting to rather authoritarian rule and they are getting involved in what schools and universities should and should not teach and are beginning to interfere in what is taught and how it is taught and that is uh severely restricting uh openness uh in ways we had never thought possible so from resources to plan practice we need built-in research reusability and that came up in the chat just a few minutes ago we need to actually build that into the resources so that they can be reused and that they are valid for other purposes too much resource too many resources are only one offs and they can only be used by that teacher at that time and they're useless to anyone else building in metadata so so it's searchable there's still an awful lot of resources being produced with virtually no metadata no one can find this and no one can link it with anything else and that means we need people or organizations who can curate these collections and make them searchable and make them link to other relative related um materials licensing is the creative commons system the best system for licensing open content i'm not sure um we have a lot of teachers who produce them with open licenses but they choose non-derivative as a condition because they don't want their videos tampered with and they're afraid of that we need institutional commitment which you have at edinburgh but it's not present at many universities and i think really we need to be looking more at open pedagogy than open resources because let's share practice rather than resources because that was the hit during the pandemic teachers were sharing how do you how do i teach this bit how do i teach this sort of session how do we yeah how do that that i think is something we need to develop open sharing the way we do things rather than the content and finally a little quote from bjerk um which says a lot i think um a little bit about scandinavia as well but are we trying to organize freedom if we have openness maybe we should just let it you know let's be open let's be open in our own ways and should we try to frame it into some kind of organization are we being a little bit uh over ambitious here and with that i will hopefully within the time scale stop sharing yes thank you very much uh you've done very well and i quite like that even that you are such a strong advocate of open education and open educational resources you took the devil side here and you uh you raise the note of caution so um and thank you for very much for doing this i know from the past when i needed to to be on an oxford debate on the side of not liking online education that it's not that easy when you believe in something to be able to to say convince like what are the issues which we face am i quite like so much the idea what you said uh that those who don't need mostly the os they don't know they exist what we can do for that obviously we run webinars and so on but basically do we really reach the grassroots of educators those which are at the bottom line of not it's very difficult but there are there are signs i mean i saw an interesting an experiment where they they had solar powered uh servers that the mini servers that they loaded up with open educational resources and took out to schools it was in i think it was in kenya but it kind of might be you i might be wrong uh or uganda and they took them out to rural schools where they didn't have electricity and they didn't have internet and by using uh digital devices with wi-fi a local wi-fi they could all access those resources and use the digital resources without electricity because they had solar power and without internet is that realistic really and that's is that what they need to learn i don't know but that you know that's one way where they can be used i think we can also try to focus on we need low bandwidth solutions in many countries and an awful lot of oers are high bandwidth and they are the you know expensive you know high definition videos are not going to help them because people can't see them so that we need to look at low bandwidth solutions uh there's nothing wrong with you know again downloadable content when you have access download it and then use it but it's uh i think we need to work more with that and we need more local on the on the ground help there facilitators um and people to work with that yes indeed i think um you you faced quite a lot of information in the last year and it was so difficult to be able i mean for everybody not necessarily for one of us uh how to put this into context and how to be able to really make it deliver and i quite like that already in the chat stephen is trying to answer to you alistair andre money and i like a bit of a spark of a debate but we prepare a poll for those which are now following us in zoom and i'll read out the questions also for those who are following us on youtube and you can answer just by numbers uh if you would like so the question one is are you using or used open educational resources in your learning or your teaching and if yes how and you can answer to it no and then yes at bibliography yes as a course lesson or modules yes as activities yes as to develop new skills yes and i'm a creator and a co-creator and i'm reusing os obviously you can answer to all of them of the majority of them because it's a multiple choice question and as i said those who are following us on youtube you can say how you are you using os if you are using them the question number two is what do you consider is the main problem with adopting grass again a multiple choice not enough information and no training for how to use or create words and do not know if my resource is right i face also this quite often sometimes and do not know where and how and whom to whom to share and obviously licensing and three do you consider open education a solution i know and track open educational resources and practices as part of the education ecosystem and the answers are no not really it is difficult maybe yes but it's challenging and yes it is our best solution i will just leave for another one minute the pool open in zoom and please everyone who can please answer to this and i would like just to highlight uh one or two comments and questions and especially one from youtube is coming from albert schum from the university of maryland who very well pointed out one of our core beliefs that you need to design learning resources intentionally from the beginning to be open and this is one of the things which we need to look into all the time when we are thinking as educators or as technology developers or instructional designer how we are doing the things and it's not easy but it's doable and we can all do it and he's also mentioning that his university is one of the doing a lot of oils and and using them in their online campus and i will uh close the poll very soon and i will kindly ask the eden secretary i thank very much for supporting us to pick up all of these uh websites which uh stephen melissa and alistair have been sharing on chat and to post it also on youtube for our uh watchers and viewers there so i'm ending the poll and let's see the results and uh invite everyone each of you to pick one question from the three speakers and comment on the results stephen would you like to go for the first one of melissa or alistar who wants to go to the first result you see it now in the screen so i answered i'm a creator co-creator using oers and uh i i think that's well it's clearly the majority um but uh really i don't think that there's any best answer there i think any use of oers whether you're creating them using them whatever is a good juice you know it doesn't have to be in a course it doesn't have to be in a program i watch a lot of free videos on youtube just because i'm interested in the subject and uh you know it's not part of a formal education and it usually falls out of our discussions about oers but boy it sure is widely used okay question number two melissa maybe yes i think i actually struggled with this because um i don't know what the main problem in doing it is because we try very hard to make to lower the barrier um and in all the institutions that i've worked in and i don't know whether this helps and alistair mentioned the fear that some people have when they are teachers that they will lose their status or they'll lose their materials i mean i've worked at university of edinburgh university of oxford and university of leeds and those are all high status institutions where high status colleagues and very famous lecturers all take part in publishing some of their materials as open educational resources and in fact edinburgh and oxford are two of the largest providers of open educational resources in the uk so if it helps anybody to be able to say that other people do it um please i'm happy to give examples but i think the question about whether it's too difficult and the licensing and copyright is a good question and actually it's because the way i do it at the institutions where i work i make sure there is a support service and the support service offers training about the licensing and about how to create and use so anyone who's so i think it's all very well you asked me earlier how you get a university to do it well partly i just you know make sure that my university is doing it but i have a i have a policy and the policy is supported by a service and the service includes people who can give you advice and help and that means that any colleague who wants to know or has a question or isn't sure if they're allowed to or thinks it might be too difficult has a person that they can talk to and we run regular training on creative commons licensing explaining all of the different options and mostly it's about having a conversation with colleagues about what would you be comfortable with what would you not be comfortable with this much happening these kind of things happening to your materials etc etc and most people choose the most open licenses at the end of those conversations and a question that's always worth asking them when they're doing this training is you know where do you use materials from other places and what kinds of things do you find challenging about that and so you you managed to unpick all kinds of crazy ideas about how if something is public that's the same as open so you can just use it and if it's on the web you can just take that and if you've bought the book you can just scan the images of the diagram and use it in your teaching so there's the actual discussion about open educational resources actually ends up unpicking a whole bunch of stuff where a lot of faculty have really crazy ideas about how copyright works in general so i would say that that again is a good investment for a university to make in having training about copyright and if it's training about open educational resources all the better if you're not offering training about copyright you've got some crazy activity going on behind the scenes yes i can i can really go there with you if i can uh let's go for question number three before commenting extra more uh uh alistar please oh actually when i was i'm trying to answer what what's been coming up just now i mean yes i i'm sort of arguing a little bit against my own some of my own beliefs this time but uh it's because i hear these arguments from teachers all the time and uh one experience i have is that when we've got legal experts to come in and talk about copyright issues we all come away more confused than we ever were in the beginning and uh terrified that uh you know we're not allowed to do anything um so sometimes it depends which legal experts you invite in and you're never quite sure until you've actually heard them what angle they're going to have so it hasn't actually helped having that type of training uh we maybe picked the wrong people but it's been incred the teachers have gone away saying i'm not doing anything i give you know i'm just i'm locking down so it's been actually the opposite effect um that um i think they are the question three about being sort of part of a solution i think yes and no uh i don't think um it's not the the ultimate answer to everything it is part of uh it's part of many solutions there is no one you know openness is one aspect which is very important in education uh but not everything has to be open not everything should be open uh and we have to recognize that there are different layers of openness and we have to be able to negotiate them and i think the training that we need is to understand these different uh different states and instead of thinking that just simple openness will solve our problems just by putting you know i i used to think if you'd asked me five years ago maybe i was more on that side i i i was quite um i was super enthusiastic i'm now a little bit more worried about the way technology is taking yes i think uh sometimes a note of caution is something which we all need and sometimes it's very good to have somebody who will tell you okay just be careful here or pay attention to that and so on um uh thank you for yes yes do you want to see another another point is that i think when melissa was taught you were talking about sort of you know the sort of high status aspect i think what you find is that the more secure people are in their position maybe the easier it is for them to be open and many of the people who are worried about openness and not sure about sharing anything are the adjuncts and the people who are on six month contracts and don't know where they'll be in six months time and they're a bit cautious in sharing things that they may need to use somewhere you know that they have fears about that and uh they're not sure about the value of them sharing whatever they create just now and um there may be a bit of employment in security there yeah that might be a case and i would like to move a tiny bit now the discussions and to bring something which uh what i i saw in the chat i think coming from conchata concertina if i'm right about student co-creators um which is a subject which is very dear to me we've been adopting this for many many years in my university volcanic universe of tim shaw and i'm a big fan of involving students as co-creators and and making the the the learning assignments anything of the activities and projects which they want to do as much as possible open and as much as possible reusable for the future generations or for other students or in other courses and melissa pointed out very well here in the chat i'm just trying to pick up something uh that they're using student interns as open interns and i think that's that's a brilliant idea and i think that's also hardness of this collective intelligence and and empower the students are really feeling that they are part of the educational system and they produce value for the for their university stephen you pointed out quite a lot of debates and trying to answer to some of the some of alistar's uh how to say ideas not necessarily his but the the note of caution which he was trying to to bring up and so on and i quite like the idea that he pointed out that what success looks like how do you define success in education or in open education even yeah and i think this is an important point uh because often the use of open educational resources and and sharing a collaboration generally to bring us back to the main theme of the uh of the webinar the success of this is depicted very much from an institutional point of view and to be quite honest i don't care one wit about the institutional point of view because uh you know the whole purpose of this isn't to make institutions better or more profitable or create return on investment and it isn't in order to make professors more comfortable or more secure in their position the whole purpose of all of this is to enable individuals and community to learn and a lot of the criticisms that alistair has come up with not just today putting his columns over the months and perhaps even extending to years are criticisms of the way open educational resources and open learning roll out and these problems come up from my perspective as i read this these problems are created by the institutions rather than the concept of openness in general and i much prefer a if you will more free and easy attitude about this and it begins with the very concept of who produces oers who produces open resources or open learning generally and what's its what is it for and i think anyone can produce an open resource and everyone should feel encouraged to do so and nobody should feel required to do so and if we get these things out of the way so like for example don't make it an assignment right um or don't make it a requirement that somebody shares something openly because then you run into all kinds of problems um but don't make it a requirement that they not share right and when you make something a requirement that you not share this is you know again it almost always comes from this institutional perspective i put in the in the chat for example and i've run across this many times i'm looking for my comment so i can read it precisely uh it was about lawyers i can't find it uh oh there it is don't ask the lawyers what is legal they will say nothing is legal because that's the only way to avoid risk and that's a really important thing to understand that the perception of risk on the part of an institution which may have millions or hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank account is very different from risk as it applies to an individual and even the perception of fair use is very different a person just using some content for something that they're sharing not making any money not making a production out of it or an institutional basis out of it they've got much wider rain than an institution that charges tuition that restricts admission to classes and is making resources that maybe they share them but very often you have to pay tuition to someone in order to see them you know your your scope is much narrower so i think let's talk about open learning without talking about the institutions and see what we get and then let's talk about the institutions as dealing with the special cases where additional support is required or some organization is required you know this idea that all of our learning has to be sliced and diced and flaked and formed and put out there by an institution is a ridiculous idea and and we have the technology now that we don't need most of what the institution provides us with yes somehow i agree with you that learning happens anywhere and like we learn for the entire of our life and either is structural and not structured or informal or not formal learning is is good and it it should happen and as much as possible being open learning obviously when you are in an institution you don't really have that much freedom and uh it's not always easy and that's freedom stop saying that you have lots of if any kind of organization would say you don't have freedom it's the government but in fact i have wide latitude if i'm not scared to use the freedoms that i actually have so right off the bat don't cultivate this climate of fear and you don't have freedom to do things you are citizens in a free country all of you you do have freedoms yes i need to say i i agree with you up to a point up to a point of working contracts and the things which are in the regulations of some of the working countries but as i i fully agree with you that you can always find a way and i and i'm there i was uh in a very tied up institution in the past and i was in a very low-ranked position and i founded a way to share the resources and and the things outside and nobody questioned me but i haven't used the name of the university when i was doing it i only used my name and that's it and they couldn't argue with that so that's probably the way for everybody i would like yes i know uh i would like to discuss something about the future because the entire idea of this series of webinars and of this webinar is what do you what do we want to do for the future how we reimagine the next education level all the times after the crisis of after something happened the things changed it has been a shift is it a major shift is it is a paradigm shift do you really think that the universities and the schools will change but basically we look at higher education system here quite a lot of the higher education and very large and well-known universities have built up think tanks or have done external evaluation and come with new strategies and trying to reshape their education system what do you see the role of open education into that alistar let's see oh i was i was waiting for melissa there but uh um i i'll make it brief and i'll be interested to hear her comment because she's much she's doing much more with it i think i don't think we should be bothered about um so much how open it all is i think the focus is on community and the focus is learning in communities and that we need to give our students that exposure to learning in communities and sharing with each other and seeing what level of openness we gain out of that um i think the key is sharing sharing pedagogies of openness without being too worried about which license we're going to put on it or which repository we're going to put on it the main thing is getting collaboration as a way of learning would be a nice angle to take but as in everything about the future who knows anything can happen and that's the beauty of future but let's try to build it up melissa what is university of edinburgh planning or strategy already thinking well i do disagree i don't think community and sharing and open are the same as open educational resources i do think it's about licensing and i think we have to have rigor around that because i think just referring to open education pedagogy as being sharing ideas about how we teach and we should we should be doing that but that's not what open licensing is about or um what open education resources are about and i think that's open washing when people think that just anything that's shared or anything that's public or that as long as we talk about things we're doing open education [Music] that's where everybody gets very confused i mean i am i do take quite a hard line on the fact that it's not an open educational resource unless it is a open openly licensed to be reused um and so i do think that the open educational resource licensing is that absolute key the infrastructure that we need to continue to support and i support that in every aspect of my university so instead of just focusing on just one thing i make sure that we have a good chunk of our media open licensed i make sure that a good chunk of our online courses are open licensed i make sure that it is in the curriculum and we do set it as assignments and we do have a wikimedian in residence and he does work with people all across the curriculum doing assignments in classes and the students who get involved in those open educational resources um activities with the comedian and residents for instance are doing a kind of activity that is unlike um and transformational for them when they write articles for wikipedia and then watch how those articles um are um engaged with by the public and then we have um you know a dozen um university courses where they are doing wikipedia activities as assessed work in the curriculum and we have whole courses where the students make oers so for instance we have a group of there's a module in geosciences where the whole module is to create learning materials for schools and from the moment that they start the task of doing making the learning materials they do it from an open design perspective we teach them about the kind of licenses that they're going to need to use and where they're going to need to source all of the diagrams or they're going to need to draw them themselves and all of those things and their projects result in packets of learning materials that are because the other thing we teach them about is the scottish school curriculum and so the university students create packets of open educational resources that can immediately be used by teachers in the scottish school curriculum and then we put those into places where we know that teachers in scotland are looking for learning resources so again i don't think you have to make repositories i think what you have to do is figure out where the audience for your open educational resources is already looking and make sure that you put your materials there so in terms of strategy i like to try to do all kinds of things one of the things that is new for us at the moment is we're making an open textbook and we're making that um it's fundamentals of music theory and we are employing students to help to do that we're making it from materials that we already had as part of a mooc and updating them and turning them into an open textbook and again those students are learning not only about open educational resources and creative commons licensing but the first task was to go and research all of the different open book platforms so that they could understand what the difference between those were and then make a choice as to where they wanted to host that book so i really think that we can take a we have to take a strategy across institution to think about open educational resources but it does need some focus and rigor so that it doesn't just become teaching um and everything that uh everybody just does and just talking about it because i don't think that's the same thing at all uh yes in a way i agree with you and i have a very specific question uh just to continue this idea for the next academic year for example what is the main strategy what's the focus of open of obviously in the idea of open of the university of edinburgh well we're continuing with all of the things that we normally do we continue to produce moocs we continue to produce online courses we're getting into open textbooks we continue to have a wikimedian in residence um i don't know it's hard that's the wonderful thing about open educational resources is quite often new things grow up it's an incredibly creative area to be in last year we spent a lot of time on witches um witches of scotland this year we have a wiki sorcerer working with us um and that we're really looking at getting stuff from our archives and collections out onto wikisource so i don't know if that answers your questions but we will continue to do all the things that we we do we have hundreds of thousands of open educational resources published from the university of edinburgh on our platforms i'll put the link in where people can see some of them but the numbers of um edinburgh colleagues who are choosing the creative commons license um is increasing all the time yes indeed and i think one of the major things which uh universities and also higher education institutions a large organization can do exactly like eden thinking being persistent if you start doing something keep doing it and keep enhancing and doing it better and better all the time and learning from what you've done in the past the future of uh of education of higher education how do you see it stephen so i think the first thing that's going to happen is everybody's going to try to go back to normal as soon as possible that's my prediction and i'm standing with it um you know i i think you know maybe in the fall perhaps if it's the fall when the pandemic is officially over they'll say we're all going back to normal it's all going to be the way it was because we loved that and there will be a significant push back and reaction against you know the stuff that we've been doing during the pandemic to put learning online to host zoom calls already you know there's this whole zoom fatigue thing people are forgotten about meeting fatigue because they're having zoom fatigue or traveling fatigue yeah or true yeah we see this is what's gonna happen right everybody will push back we'll have in-person conferences in-person events in-person classes and then some time will go by and people will realize wait a sec this wasn't so great i had to travel all day on three separate flights to give this half hour presentation and i didn't even get a full half hour why did i do that um or you know we all had to come into the central office for this staff meeting where the managers just stood there and lectured to us for an hour you know you and pick your own scenario right so i think gradually we'll say well why don't we go back to having these meetings online why don't we hire a person who works remotely why don't we have the option to have classes online instead of in person uh you know for any of our classes and and we'll you know the what will not go away you know it's not the practices and things that we did in a hurry during the pandemic it's our experience of using those and actually getting kind of used to them after a year and then going back and that comparison is going to be the really important thing i think that's quite an interesting perspective stephen and uh i would like to challenge you on that but uh i don't think that i have enough arguments at this moment i really hope probably this is an internal belief which i have that people will learn from the lessons and will try to do it better and as we approach the end now i would like just for one word one single word each of you to say what do you expect in the education in the future one single word please who wants to be the first i want to work okay steve what do you want free learning melissa quality alistar oh goodness i'm stuck um change i really hope that uh with eden and being online together we will be able to build up changeable and quality and free learning in the near future thank you everyone for watching please join our next eden webinar on thursday the may 13th with a webinar doing together with the project child say and our next online together webinar with the same talking topic about time to change but looking into pedagogical change and the teaching practice who is going to be led and moderated by mark brown is going to be on the 25th of may i need to thank very very much uh our speakers and presenters today melissa highton stephen downs and aleister krielman and please everybody stay safe where you are and keep keep learning can keep being open keep using and creating open educational resources practices and tools and join us in the next eden conference even webinars and i would like to take a photo everybody so have a look into the camera nicely and smile this is going to be public and now thank you and this is at the end thank you for everyone you will be able to find the recording online on youtube and also on facebook and twitter see you next week all the best bye everyone you